There has been a recent situation with Sunshine and one of her friends that has raised quite the question: Can a single man really be “just friends” with a woman?
Surely, this question has been raised before. As I mentioned briefly last week, Sunshine had a single male friend who she recently had a falling out with. Recently, she asked me what I thought about the possibility of her and the girls going out on a camping trip with him overnight (or two). To me it just seemed odd for a single straight guy to want to do that. So I told her straight-up that I felt weird about it but I trusted her to do whatever she wanted to do. She ended up telling her friend that maybe it wasn’t such a good idea to go camping, at which point the guy got upset and admitted that he felt jealous of me and had feelings for her.
This has led Sunshine to question a LOT of his motives from conversations over the past few months. I told her straight-up that I thought she should give him the benefit of the doubt and that things he said to her weren’t said with a hidden agenda in mind.
All of this story leads me back to the original question: Can a single man really be “just friends” with a woman?
My thoughts? In a nutshell, no…but with a catch.
I honestly think it’s impossible for a single guy to be “just friends” with a woman if there’s even the REMOTE possibility of attraction (and whether or not she’s even single to begin with). Why? I think it’s just the natural order of things. Guys, when single, are easily attracted to others. When you throw in friendship…the basis to any relationship…with an attraction then feelings will inevitably get involved in one way, shape, or form.
If there’s no attraction, then obviously there’s no crush.
I dunno…maybe I’m way off here. I can only give my opinion based upon my own experiences, and I’ve been in that exact situation myself. Heck…I’ve fallen for a friend on more than one occasion, even when I didn’t want to do it.
So what do you think? Am I way off just because of my own personal previous situations? Do you think a single man can be JUST FRIENDS with a woman?
WHAT SAY YOU??
March 25th, 2010 at 8:11 am
This is a tough one. Had you asked me a month ago, my answer would have been a resounding “ABSOLUTELY!” After the events of the past couple of weeks…I’m not so sure.
And that makes me very, very disappointed.
You men are SUCH dogs. heh.
March 25th, 2010 at 9:01 am
I would have to say Yes. Being married, and having a few single male friends, there isn’t an issue.
Granted, not like there wasn’t attraction at one point, but I’m MARRIED. I don’t go there. And my guy friends respect me and my husband enough to not go there either.
If you can get over that ‘non-hump’ (ha ha I crack me up!) quickly and mutually, then a friendship can develop.
I think it’s kinda crappy that MS’s friend blind sided her with the “admitted that he felt jealous of me and had feelings for her.” thing AFTER she expressed her feelings to him. Crappy guy move on his part.
If he was a true friend, he would have understood, respected her and YOUR relationship and said “Well, why don’t we just get coffee sometime soon, that work?” or whatever she felt comfortable with in regards to the relationship between the two of you.
Anyway, I’m rambling now, so bottom line, I think you can as long as there is a mutual respect for the individuals and their relationships.
March 25th, 2010 at 10:46 am
That was my thought process, too. If he REALLY respected her, he would have quickly understood her reasons for not going camping.
Instead, he said some things about me to her (I’m jealous of him, apparently) and then pushed her away…meaning their friendship is now in jeopardy. And that sucks because up until this point, he seemed like a great friend for her.
March 25th, 2010 at 10:05 am
That’s a tough one. I have a couple of REALLY amazing male friends. And I 100% believe that they don’t feel anything other than friendship for me. But I think that is very very rare.
March 25th, 2010 at 10:33 am
Well, as I’ve written before, I do have quite a few single male friends. And it doesn’t make Rascal comfortable at all. I have told Rascal that I would only hang out with people who had respect for my relationship. If I didn’t feel that they did, I would certainly decline any offer to “hang out”.
For instance, I have one single guy friend that I had to stop being around because of what happened one evening when Rascal and I were first seeing each other. This friend invited me to a party where there was lots of drinking. As I left to head home (sober), he walked me to my car. In the front yard of this house, my “friend” proceeded to drop his pants (he was only wearing shorts, no shirt, no shoes – it was a summertime rooftop party) and expose himself to me. I excused him, because I respect him more than that, but he was drunk. He was being very forward in asking me to “touch him” and then grabbed my hand and put it on his…. Well, you get the idea.
Rascal was furious and I laughed it off. Now I know NOT to hang out with THAT guy.
Anyway, not to make this all about me… but yes, I think a single guy and girl can be friends if there’s respect. Period. There may be attraction but if the guy can keep his hands to himself….
March 25th, 2010 at 10:49 am
I find that interesting, T, because I also would be furious at that situation even though you didn’t do anything wrong.
And I guess you said it best…it’s about RESPECT.
But I think you need to know that even though a guy isn’t acting on his feelings out of respect for you and your relationship, it doesn’t mean that those feelings aren’t actually there.
Which is kinda my point.
It’s not just about cheating…it’s about a man’s inability to keep from having those feelings to begin with, regardless of whether or not he acts on them or says anything about them.
I really don’t think this guy would have tried anything with her on this trip, but that doesn’t make the request any less odd. The request itself was him “acting” on his feelings…which Sunshine knew nothing about until after she declined the offer.
March 25th, 2010 at 10:53 am
In fairness to him, he didn’t “request” the trip. We were talking about how much we loved camping and how I felt sad that YOU don’t…and I don’t remember who threw out the idea that he and I could take the kids and go together.
For me, the ‘betrayal’ was in him coming to me and telling me how he was feeling. I think that someone can overcome those feelings on their own, without dragging the attached person into it. THAT was the problem that I have with all of this.
March 25th, 2010 at 11:11 am
I think that’s the reason that Rascal feels uncomfortable. He says that he knows that these single guys have feelings for me. And in some ways, he’s right. But I have to remind him that I’m the one in charge of the p*ssy. Its not like I’m going to do anything with these guys just because they have feelings for me. I hung out with them before and didn’t… why would I do it now?
But he says he can’t stand the thought of me being around someone else and them thinking or hoping for more.
Which makes me wonder about men… can a guy be around a girl who has feelings for him and not act? Or does a guy simply not act, go back to his life and then fantasize about what it would be like to act on that? And then perhaps he feels guilty about it?
Because see… us girls aren’t like that. If we’re not attracted, we don’t fantasize. At all. But I think most men fantasize about women in general.
Am I right?
March 25th, 2010 at 11:18 am
That’s the big thing for me, T, is that there’s just no attraction there at all. He’s a great guy, but even if we were both single, there wouldn’t be anything happening. Hell, there was nothing happening when we were both single.
And even if I were attracted to him, there wouldn’t be any acting on those feelings, because I have a good thing going here with CBG…why would I do anything to risk that?
I think men seem to feel a greater obligation to act on their feelings than women do.
March 25th, 2010 at 11:34 am
And quite frankly, if a man’s “feelings” for me began to be obvious or make me feel uncomfortable, I wouldn’t be around him.
The point is, I can take care of myself in these situations just as I did before. Its unfortunate that we still have these situations to deal with but that’s what happens in a long distance relationship. We still lead our lives and spend time with friends… some of which are other men.
I wonder, because Rascal and I have talked about this, would you maintain those single men relationships if you lived in the same town?
I have one single guy friend that I’ve known for 25 years and he’s been through, and made friends with, everyone in every relationship I’ve been in. I think its possible. In some cases…
March 25th, 2010 at 11:31 am
That’s my point, T. Single guys (and I need to stress “single” because that’s the bottom-line of my argument) simply can’t just “be friends” with women, and especially not if she’s having feelings towards him.
And yes…guys fantasize.
ALL THE TIME.
March 25th, 2010 at 11:39 am
Which makes me wonder if that is where the discomfort lies… You and Rascal don’t like to think that another man is fantasizing about your woman.
And I don’t blame you. But we can’t help it if we’re hot.
;-P
But that doesn’t mean that we fantasize about the men who have feelings for us. We only fantasize about OUR men.
…
And occasionally Lenny Kravitz.
March 25th, 2010 at 11:42 am
That’s a big difference between men and women. Men fantasize about every woman they see. I don’t think women are built the same way. My own fantasies are about my man, period.
Well, my man and the occasional chick.
And Lenny, but he doesn’t count, right?
heh.
In any case, T, if our men are upset that another guys is fantasizing about us, then does that give us the right to be upset when THEY fantasize about another woman….?
March 25th, 2010 at 12:02 pm
That’s the thing.
When Rascal gets upset about my hanging out with my single guy friends, he brings up the fact that he doesn’t hang out with his single girl friends.
And I try to tell him that we’re built differently!
He has one single girl friend that I’ve met and I adore. They have a brother/sister relationship and I trust him AND her.
However, I know there are other girls that want to hang out with him because they have feelings for him and that makes ME very uncomfortable. Why? I trust him and he pulls the same “I’m the one in control of my d*ck” line with me. But I also know that a woman can get away with more force in showing her feelings than a man can. And I can’t always guarantee that the blood will be pumping to the big brain, you know?
In that scenario, I would feel very uncomfortable about his fantasizing about that particular woman. Mostly because I know that she’d gladly act on it.
However, in most cases, we do fantasize together about other women. And these are women that don’t know us or don’t know him or someone I saw at the gym or he saw at the store and we play with that idea. I know that its a typical guy thing to fantasize so I’ve learned (and am still learning) that its not a personal thing. I like that he shares his fantasies with me because he’s including me in his fantasies.
And I have to definitely be in the right frame of mind to hear about it…
March 25th, 2010 at 12:10 pm
But now we’re steering away from the point of the post in that single guys can’t just “be friends” with women because they’re “big brain” will end up getting involved.
In terms of “jealousy”, I told Sunshine from Day One that she could hang out with whomever she wanted to because I trust her implicitly (and will continue to do so until she gives me a reason NOT to).
It didn’t bother me that she hung out with this guy so often. They’re friends and that’s fine. I was bothered, though, that he was getting to spend the time with her and the girls that I wanted to spend with them but couldn’t because of the distance issue.
Anyway…you two can fantasize about Lenny Kravitz all you like because, really, as long as you are committed to your men at the end of the day then that’s all that is really important, right?
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with fantasizing as long as it doesn’t get in the way of your reality.
March 25th, 2010 at 12:18 pm
Point taken.
I agree with that last line. Exactly.
March 25th, 2010 at 12:30 pm
“I don’t think there’s anything wrong with fantasizing as long as it doesn’t get in the way of your reality.”
So then it’s not a problem if a friend fantasizes about your woman then, right?
I mean, any man can think anything he wants about me all day long. Hell, he can even tell me about it, he can even try to act on it, but that’s not going to make me act on it in return.
When two people spend a lot of time together, sometimes it just happens that feelings develop. That’s just nature, I think. The important part is what happens with those emotions, how the other person chooses to deal with them.
March 25th, 2010 at 12:47 pm
I don’t disagree with you. I’m just saying that it’s hard to be a single guy who develops those feelings and NOT act on it. I never had a problem with your friendship with him and that’s not what I’m saying here. I’m just saying that a single guy can’t NOT develop feelings (with the VERY rare exception) and I’m using him as an example.
Heh…I said “hard”….
March 25th, 2010 at 2:02 pm
But even if they do develop those feelings and act on it, it doesn’t mean that we’re going to act in return. Are you wanting to protect her?
March 25th, 2010 at 1:17 pm
OK, well I’ll jump into the fray.
I dated a guy for a while, fell in love … and then we broke up (Oh, OK, I was dumped!) for reasons that made sense for what was happening in his life. Not because we didn’t care for each other, not because we weren’t right for each other, not because either of us was “bad” or did something “bad.”
My first reaction was to say, I never want to see/hear from you again! But then I realized the things that attracted me to him in the first place — his kind heart, his view of the world, his honesty, etc. — were still there.
So, we became friends. Did I still want to jump his bones? Yes! Did that make me sad sometimes? Yes! Did I feel tweaked when I saw him with other women? Yes! Did I still feel that having him in my life was more important than not having him in my life? Yes!
T, the guy who dropped his pants was beyond inappropriate. I don’t know how I could remain friends with that, and although I can understand Rascal’s jealousy of him, his jealousy of all the others isn’t partcularly healthy.
Sunshine’s friend was not inappropriate — he told her the truth (thankfully before the camping trip); no reason to go back and rewrite the friendship script. What matters now is, does she feel OK having him in her life, and does he fully understand that he’s never going to be her “guy”?
So, to get back to your question CBG, yes, but as you say, it’s hard for people who have feelings for someone to not want to act on it, too. They can be friends, but if there’s an attraction, there’s always a “but” to the friendship.
March 25th, 2010 at 1:40 pm
A better question here might be is if it’s possible to maintain a good friendship when one person is attracted to the other.
You raise some good points, Kat. I guess part of my concern now is questioning his motive for telling me to begin with. In a way, is that not similar to actually physically acting on those feelings? I guess I would have preferred for him to work this all out with someone who is not directly involved.
March 25th, 2010 at 2:00 pm
I would agree with you Sunshine. I would think his motive for telling you was to see if you’d act differently than you did. He was testing your loyalty.
I still think a lot of this comes from what CBG said above.. these other guys are spending time with us where our guys want to spend time with us. The distance thing makes it more challenging.
And Kat, the reason that Rascal feels jealous is because, honestly, most of the single guy friends that remain in my life were intimate with me at some point. Ya know that “boundary” issue I’m examining on my blog? Well now ya know.
I’ve found that my boundaries tend to be a lot more lenient than society would deem appropriate. Hence the reason I am able to remain on speaking terms with the “pants dropper” in the above scenario. I think it makes Rascal nervous…. he’s not sure where I will draw the line. So I’m building his trust by drawing in some boundaries that were a bit looser before. Its helping tremendously. And he’s breathing a lot easier than he was before.
March 25th, 2010 at 2:08 pm
I absolutely agree that the distance makes it more challenging, for sure.
March 25th, 2010 at 2:12 pm
And the whole idea that maybe he WAS testing my loyalty is what leaves me with a bad feeling about the whole thing. I’m always one to give people the benefit of the doubt, but in this case it’s tough.
March 25th, 2010 at 2:16 pm
Wow, quite the post going here! I guess I’m going to play Switzerland and stay in the middle of the road (hey, I’m a Libra, we like balance and compromise
) – because I think it’s always (or usually) a case by case basis – but to Sunshine’s point on motives for telling you his feelings, I don’t know that I agree that it’s as bad or the same as acting on them…I think he’s just going out on a limb and seeing if there’s any reciprocal feelings. What I wonder is, did realize, or weight, the outcome of telling you his feelings – if you didn’t share the same feelings, which clearly you don’t, then the friendship is sort of never quite the same, or it falls apart. Not sure that’s any win/win for him, so personally, I just think that was a bad choice on his part.
March 25th, 2010 at 2:22 pm
Honestly? He’d HAVE to have known the outcome. He reads my blog (and likely this one. Hell, he could be reading this conversation right now). He knows the deal with CBG and I.
At this point I’m not sure that the friendship WILL ever be the same…and it makes me sad. But I guess I’d rather know the truth than have a friendship based on false pretenses.
March 25th, 2010 at 1:57 pm
Well, that’s a good point, too, Sunshine. He probably should have.
Confession is good for the soul, but it’s often a huge burden for the person confessed to!
And, revising what I wrote, we didn’t “become” friends; we always were. And lovers. We just dropped the lovers part. Well, sometimes …
March 25th, 2010 at 2:00 pm
Go Kat!!
March 25th, 2010 at 2:17 pm
I have lotsa guy friends…..mostly gay of course…Ima ho for my mo’s
I actually have nothing relevant to add here…..Idk if you can just be friends….I mean I know I can….I have guy friends that have been like my brothers & I fart in front of….and I have guys that claim to be my friends but I find that hard to believe when they’re eye-fucking me….but then there are those friends with benefits…..and now Im in over my head….. {backs away slowly…..dashes for the door}
BTW—you rock and so do you momma sunshine
March 25th, 2010 at 2:24 pm
Sure.
If they’re both gay.
-R.
March 25th, 2010 at 2:31 pm
…and this, RE, is why you’re one of my faves.
March 25th, 2010 at 2:27 pm
I’ve been friends with one guy for 30 – something years. Through marriages, dates, relationships, etc, we’ve remained friends. Once, in 1987, we kissed and were disgusted by it. We were such good friends it kind of felt like kissing my brother (if I had a brother). We weren’t even attracted to one another, we just kind of felt like we were SUPPOSED to be attracted to each other.
I have a friend now who is newly single. And if I were single, I’m confident we’d remain friends. We totally hit it off in a very cerebral way, but there’s nothing to connect us romantically or sexually.
But I think a huge part of the problem is how we’re socialized. Men are socialized to act on most impulses around women, and women are taught to see their value in the desire of men. ie: If he’s just friend wtih you but doesn’t WANT you, then there just must be something wrong wtih you.
I think we’re also taught that any time a man pays attention, we should consider if he might be “the one” and try him on for size romantically. Every meeting is the potential for ever lasting love and hearts and flowers and unicorns and rainbows and all that shit.
I don’t think any of that is hard wired either. I think its beaten into us before we’re out of the womb.
March 25th, 2010 at 5:36 pm
One of my BEST friends in the whole world is a Dude from college that I adore but we both admitted that we’re too different to be anything more then one of two options…FB’s or BFF’s. And since there is respect and love between us we’ve been BFF’s for nearing 10 years. When he met his wife, he introduced as the most important female in his current life. She and I instantly became friends and I’ve gracefully passed the torch of most important female in his life to her, and I love her too.
Here’s the thing though. I’ve had tons of alleged guy friends who bide their time in the Friend Zone waiting for me to ‘wake up’ and see how awesome they are and dump so-and-so for them. It’s tragic but inevitably I’ve lost someone who I cared for because of the ultimatum and pressure to be someone I’m not. I agree with everyone who said it’s about respect. These guys did NOT respect ME or really want to be a part of my life in a real honest way.
So I think for sure it’s rare for there to be that dynamic of respect and love for the opposite sex that it works, but sometimes it does.
April 19th, 2010 at 2:58 am
YES, A MAN CAN BE FRIENDS WITH A WOMAN. I HAVE BEEN FRIENDS WITH A WOMAN FOR 10+ YEARS AND WE HAVE A BEAUTIFUL FRIENDSHIP. I PREFER FRIENDSHIP WITH A WOMAN VERSUS A INTIMATE RELATIONSHIP WHERE THINGS GET COMPLICATED.